group "english practice"

[ludi]

hello ludi, here is the new text ; i didn't propose to chat, because i am on holidays elsewhere and it's difficult, but if some of you want, you can do it.

i tried to put a link to ear an audio text, but i couldn't

so if you want to study on this text, you can hear and read it  : ICI

AND afterwords it would be good to sum the 2 different points of wiews and to compare it to the french scool system

and what do you, personaly, think about this in america? do you agree or not?

HAVE A GOOD WORK

nb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe can we have a chat next week.

NB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's ok for a chat next week

[Milla]

Ok for me too but what day : wednesday like the last time ?

And what about : the new text ?

Talk to you soon

[bigotna]

I THINK NEXT WEDNESDAY WOULD BE OK FOR ME FOR A CHAT : does someone want to suggest an audio source?

AND i join you my summary of "SOME AMERICAN SCHOOL SYSTEMS PREPARE TO CUT MIDDLE SCHOOLS" :

This text relates a decision of some American public schools systems to close middle schools. (Middle schools educate children between the ages of ten to 15).

Some great cities decided it, like New York, Philadelphia (in a large mesure) and others are thinking about it.

For the supporters of this scheme, students have better results in an elementary school than in a middle school at the same sixth grade.

( but is there the same grade in different types of schools ? if so, it’s different of the French system)

And the second point is that students in middle school show signs that they will probably not finish high school.

(and so I didn’t understand : why is it a problem? Is the high school a binding education?)

For the Officials, it would be better to educate children in others schools than middle schools to avoid an escape of the school system.

On an other side, education experts think that middle school offer better elements than wide and larger schools (as it is suggested by the first ones) : teacher have a greater attention, and middle schools learn new methods of studying.

Their other main argument is that the best success in education doesn’t depend on a type of school but rather on a type of teaching, including for example active teaching, interesting subjects, and links with families)

(and for the second time, I don’t understand : isn’t it that in elementary or high school? Is there this type of teaching in middle school? What does exactly mean these last sentences?)

I had difficulties to understand this article, because I don’t exactly know the school system in North America.

For me, we can compare middle schools to “colleges”, and it’s a bit like we would eliminate them. It would not be impossible, but only if the education would be obligatory since 18. Otherwise it would only create two different levels in a same kind of school, like now in fact with 2 different types of schools.

I think that imagine that placing students in a other type of school would be enough to avoid their escape is not a good idea ; we don’t motivate children like that. If our teaching doesn’t concern them, they won’t stay more. We must interest them.

AND YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS TEXT?

[bigotna]

I THINK NEXT WEDNESDAY WOULD BE OK FOR ME FOR A CHAT : does someone want to suggest an audio source?

AND i join you my summary of "SOME AMERICAN SCHOOL SYSTEMS PREPARE TO CUT MIDDLE SCHOOLS" :

....

For the supporters of this scheme, students have better results in an elementary school than in a middle school at the same sixth grade.

( but is there the same grade in different types of schools ? if so, it’s different of the French system)And the second point is that students in middle school show signs that they will probably not finish high school.

(and so I didn’t understand : why is it a problem? Is the high school a binding education?) For the Officials, it would be better to educate children in others schools than middle schools to avoid an escape of the school system.

On an other side, education experts think that middle school offer better elements than wide and larger schools (as it is suggested by the first ones) : teacher have a greater attention, and middle schools learn new methods of studying.

Their other main argument is that the best success in education doesn’t depend on a type of school but rather on a type of teaching, including for example active teaching, interesting subjects, and links with families)

(and for the second time, I don’t understand : isn’t it that in elementary or high school? Is there this type of teaching in middle school? What does exactly mean these last sentences?)

I had difficulties to understand this article, because I don’t exactly know the school system in North America.

For me, we can compare middle schools to “colleges”, and it’s a bit like we would eliminate them. It would not be impossible, but only if the education would be obligatory since 18. Otherwise it would only create two different levels in a same kind of school, like now in fact with 2 different types of schools.

I think that imagine that placing students in a other type of school would be enough to avoid their escape is not a good idea ; we don’t motivate children like that. If our teaching doesn’t concern them, they won’t stay more. We must interest them.

AND YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS TEXT?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HELLO, are you all on holidays?

Could someone maybe only answer to my questions? I would be happy to understand what i didn't

thank you

nb

[mazza]

Hi Bigotna!

Here are some informations from the Net (in French, sorry! ):

Traditionnellement les écoles élémentaires vont de la fin de la maternelle au grade 8 mais il arrive que dans certains endroits, celles-ci se terminent au grade 6, relayées par des "middle school" ou "junior high school" du grade 7 au grade 9. De la même façon, les écoles secondaires ou High school , comprises entre le grade 9 et le grade 12, peuvent commencer au grade 10. Le système est flexible. Pour résumer, on dira que les "Elementary Schools" correspondent aux primaires, les Junior High Schools aux "colleges" et les Senior High Schools aux lycées.

That's why I guess it is quite tricky to understand this text, as the American educational system is different from ours. However, it is the whole point of this discussion! i.e.: is it worth maintaining these middle schools?

What I've understood from the text:

The last paragraph gives the opinion of National Middle School Association official Sue Swaim. Even though it is biased (she is of course against the decisions taken by the federals), to me, it is a conclusion to say that what is important, either for middle or elementary school is what is taught. And on this point, you're right!!! I guess it is quite a popular view... :P

Hope i've helped you a bit. I may be wrong and I do love critical persons Let's discuss!

[Milla]

Hello,

Here is my summary for the last text :

This text is an article from VOA Special English Education Report, was written by Shep O'Neal and dates back to october 2005, the 19th.

This text deals with the system of the middle schools in United States of America and it highlights the existence of these classes.

Some of public school systems want to suppress that sort of school ; they argue with the bad results pointed by some studies : the attendance, the level in Mathematics or English are lowing... To sum up, they recommend to dispach the students between elementary and high schools.

A contrario, other education experts, as the National Middle School Association, completely disagree with that argumentation and draw people attention to the way that students are considered. They underline the importance of the educational methods, the teaching skills, the family environment... They explain the importance of the middle school in being a transition between elementary school and high school which rules and conditions are totally different.

It is the first time I have heard about this system and I am not pretty well-informed about the american studies. But regarding this article, I understand that these middle schools existing between elementary school and high school as our " école secondaire" exists between the "école primaire" and the "lycée". In our country, we could not imagine to suppress these grades to dispach them and iclude them in the two others "schools". I am inclined to think that it is may be a policy problem : It will cost much less money to have two schools than three...

Ouf, I have done it . In my conclusion, I gave my opinion and I don't know if it would be a good thing the D day but I'd like to think that I can talk freely with the 'jury"...

Bigotna, I haven't read your text yet because I wouldn't be influenced so I am going to do that now and give you my opinion

[Milla]

Well Bigotna I just read your summary.

Thank you Mazza for your explanation but I still don't understand what middle school is.

Is it private or public school, is it existing everywhere as our "école secondaire ou collège" ?

If it is the same system (whith different grades) as in France, can we say that problems this article is talking about are the same than in France and that the solutions they give are the same everywhere : educational methods, teaching skills, family environment...

Thank you for reading and joining us to give your opinion

[mazza]

Here's my version. I've just finished...

This document is a report published on VOA News website by N. Steinbach on the 19th of October 2005. It tackles the issue of whether maintaining middle schools or not in the American education system.

On the one hand, the officials in favour of the reform to cut middle schools argue that the middle schools’ system does not offer the best education, as reports and studies show that students from elementary schools are more successful than the ones from middle schools. They also underline major problems concerning low results in important subjects and dismissive behaviours towards education. Furthermore, the officials go as far as to say that middle schools can even be a prejudice to the students’ development.

On the other hand, the National Middle School Association officials and the experts against this reform stress that middle schools are useful to help students coping with the transition from elementary to high school. At last but not the least, they also show that middle schools offer a better supervision.

However, some officials from major cities, such as New York City and Philadelphia, have already made up their minds and taken the decision to cut a lot of middle schools.

We can conclude by saying that the American education system -quite complex- is about to cope with tremendous changes to try and improve the situation of millions of young American learners. However, as Sue Swaim argues, are these changes all for the best? Although her point of view may be biased, she gives quite a popular and widespread view: Solutions would rather be found (not sure about the grammar ) in true personal investment from teachers and learners. And the support needed does not come from a change in the system in itself.

Do you think it is too short? Any other suggestions (grammar, spelling)? I repeat: I love when my work is shread into pieces... :P

As for the US system, I didn't really get it all but I'm guessing that middle schools are public and work like a 'high school' . Either you choose to stay at elementary til your 8th grade and then go to high school, or you stop elementary at your 6th grade, go to middle school and then senior high school. I may be wrong The document I found on the net isn't any clearer! I give it to you anyway. Could someone give their opinion?

Take care shiny happy people!

comparatif_sysed_US_France.pdf

[mazza]

Thank you for reading and joining us to give your opinion 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a bit late but milla: you're welcome and no problem!!! Thank you all for letting me work with you! . This nice 'all together' feeling really fills my heart with hope and motivation.

[mazza]

I forgot to give you my opinion about your summary bigotna! :P

[mazza]

Bloody computer (or bloody me maybe  :P ) That's what I was supposed to say:

This text relates a decision of some American public schools systems to close middle schools. (Middle schools educate children between the ages of ten to 15).

Some great cities decided it, like New York, Philadelphia (in a large mesure) and others are thinking about it. Don't forget: place, author, date to put the text in context

For the supporters of this scheme, students have better results in an elementary school than in a middle school at the same sixth grade.

( but is there the same grade in different types of schools ? if so, it’s different of the French system)

And the second point is that students in middle school (plural) show signs that they will probably not finish high school.

(and so I didn’t understand : why is it a problem? Is the high school a binding education?)

For the Officials, it would be better to educate children in others (sans s) schools than middle schools to avoid an escape of the school system. (you could use 'to drop out from')

On an other side, (on the other hand) education experts think that middle school (plural?) offer better elements than wide and larger schools (as it is suggested by the first ones) : teacher (plural) have a greater attention, and middle schools learn (teach?) new methods of studying.

Their other main argument is that the best success in education doesn’t depend on a type of school but rather on a type of teaching, including for example active teaching, interesting subjects, and links with families)

(and for the second time, I don’t understand : isn’t it that in elementary or high school? Is there this type of teaching in middle school? What does exactly mean these last sentences?)

I had difficulties to understand this article, because I don’t exactly know the school system in North America.

For me, we can compare middle schools to “colleges”, and it’s a bit like we would eliminate them. It would not be impossible, but only if the education would be obligatory since 18 (I didn't understand this sentence). Otherwise it would only create two different levels in a same kind of school, like now in fact with 2 different types of schools.

I think that imagine that placing students in a other type of school would be enough to avoid their escape is not a good idea ; we don’t motivate children like that. If our teaching doesn’t concern them, they won’t stay more. We must interest them.

The only thing I'd say is: careful not to quote too many sentences from the original text... Try to say it in your own words to show that you have understood the text. And you have!!

I hope I've helped. Well done you and carry on.

[bigotna]

THAnks mazza, indeed i didn't may many efforts to make a summary with my own word, i only wanted to understand the text.

I will do better later and thanks for the explanations

nb